Agenda and minutes

An apology for absence was received from Councillor K. Howell (Carmarthenshire County Council).

The Police Commissioner was complemented on a recent radio interview although it was considered that he could have also taken the opportunity to highlight the work of the Panel. The Police Commissioner was thankful for the complement and added that he would take on board the comment made.

In response to a further comment the Police Commissioner stated that he was firmly committed to the employment of PCSOs and would continue to lobby Welsh Government for funding in this regard.

There were no declarations of personal interest.

The Commissioner pointed out that his surname was ‘Llywelyn’ not ‘Llewelyn’.

It was commented that resolution 10.2 should read:

‘That the Panel be represented at future meetings of the Police Accountability Board by any 2 panel members in the area where the meeting was being held.’

UNANIMOUSLY RESOLVED that the minutes of the meeting of the Dyfed Powys Police and Crime Panel held on the 16^th November, 2017 be signed as a correct record subject to the above amendments.

Minute 9 Police Accountability Board

The Commissioner, in response to a query, commented that the I.T. difficulties would hopefully be resolved by the end of the month.

Minute 10 Research Symposium

The Commissioner commented that the launch of the Rural Crime Strategy at the winter fair at Llanelwedd had been well received and the first of a series of Dyfed Powys rural police forums would be held shortly. He agreed to circulate the dates of the forums to the Panel.

Minute 11 Progress Report on the delivery of Commissioned Services

The Commissioner, in response to a query, commented that the issue of funding commissioned serves would hopefully be resolved shortly.

Minute 13 Panel Expenditure

The Legal Services Manager, in response to a query, advised that the Panel still had a significant amount of its 2017/18 Home Office Grant available.

“In response to a question at the last meeting of this Panel, your office kindly confirmed that the cost of your annual subscription to the Association of Police and Crime Commissioners is £19,750.00 plus VAT and that this is a flat fee payable by all Police and Crime Commissioners who are members of the association. This potentially equates to an annual budget for the association of £869,000 and provides for 13 staff 11 of whom are described on the Association website as ‘managers’.

1. What it is that you (and by implication the people of Dyfed-Powys) receive in return for that subscription
2. How does this compare with the similar association of police authorities that existed prior to the creation of Police and Crime Commissioners.”

Question by Councillor A. Lloyd Jones

“In response to a question at the last meeting of this Panel, your office kindly confirmed that the cost of your annual subscription to the Association of Police and Crime Commissioners is £19,750.00 plus VAT and that this is a flat fee payable by all Police and Crime Commissioners who are members of the association. This potentially equates to an annual budget for the association of £869,000 and provides for 13 staff 11 of whom are described on the Association website as ‘managers’.

1. What it is that you (and by implication the people of Dyfed-Powys) receive in return for that subscription
2. How does this compare with the similar association of police authorities that existed prior to the creation of Police and Crime Commissioners?”

Response by the Police and Crime Commissioner

The Commissioner responded that the The Association of Police and Crime Commissioners (APCC) was the national body that provided support to Police and Crime Commissioners, and other local policing bodies across England and Wales, to provide national leadership and influence change in the policing and criminal justice landscape. The subscription cost was marginally less than previously.

“Given the findings of the HMICFRS report into police air support in November 2017 the inevitable conclusion to be drawn must be that Dyfed-Powys Police are not getting value for money from that service and are not receiving the timely support they need. As the Commissioner sits on the NPAS management board please can he confirm what he is doing to improve the service in line with the recommendations contained within the report and in particular to improve the service received by Dyfed-Powys Police.

In addition, in light of the findings in the report regarding the use of unmanned drones by police forces, could the Commissioner confirm what steps he is taking to explore with the Chief Constable such alternative sources of air support, bearing in mind the existence  of the centre of excellence in this field at Aberporth.”

Question by Professor I. Roffe

“Given the findings of the HMICFRS report into police air support in November 2017 the inevitable conclusion to be drawn must be that Dyfed-Powys Police are not getting value for money from that service and are not receiving the timely support they need. As the Commissioner sits on the NPAS management board please can he confirm what he is doing to improve the service in line with the recommendations contained within the report and in particular to improve the service received by Dyfed-Powys Police.

In addition, in light of the findings in the report regarding the use of unmanned drones by police forces, could the Commissioner confirm what steps he is taking to explore with the Chief Constable such alternative sources of air support, bearing in mind the existence  of the centre of excellence in this field at Aberporth.”

Response by the Police and Crime Commissioner

The Commissioner commented that not only had there been a reduction in the cost of police air support available across the Dyfed-Powys Police area but it was possible to access the support 24/7, a capability which had not previously been available. It was hoped that the introduction of mobile fuel bowsers would also help improve coverage further west. In addition it was anticipated that the new fixed wing capability would be distributed more widely than initially proposed to compliment the helicopter. With regard to the use of drones the Commissioner commented that the Force had to rely on other agencies though it was hoped that there would be a greater level of collaboration over the next 12 months. The Panel was advised that the facility at Pembrey airfield was being utilised to its fullest capacity and it was also hoped that the racing track could be used for driver training.

“There was an incident in Mid Ceredigion on New Year’s Eve appertaining, as I understand it to underage drinking. The Public House was closed down that evening by the Police at an early hour, resulting in the removal also of bona-fide guests. That of course is a Police matter.

What, if any, work or programmes does the Commissioner commission personally, or by working in partnerships with others to try and educate our young people relating to drink and drugs. From your knowledge, is this a greater issue / problem in the Ceredigion BCU area as compared to other BCU n the Force area?”

Question by Councillor K. Evans

“There was an incident in Mid Ceredigion on New Year’s Eve appertaining, as I understand it to underage drinking. The Public House was closed down that evening by the Police at an early hour, resulting in the removal also of bona-fide guests. That of course is a Police matter.

What, if any, work or programmes does the Commissioner commission personally, or by working in partnerships with others to try and educate our young people relating to drink and drugs. From your knowledge, is this a greater issue / problem in the Ceredigion BCU area as compared to other BCU n the Force area?”

Response by the Police and Crime Commissioner

The Commissioner commented that it was difficult to quantify if drinking and drug use by young people was a greater problem in the Ceredigion BCU area. He did not think so but accepted that alcohol consumption was a major contributor to crime and emphasised the importance of educating young people through the schools liaison programme. He was currently lobbying Welsh Government for more funding for this work whilst he, himself, had increased funding available to the youth offending team.

UNANIMOUSLY RESOLVED that a letter in support of the Commissioner’s lobbying for increased funding be sent to Welsh Government.

The Police and Crime Commissioner [PCC] presented to the Panel his report on the proposed precept/budget for 2018/19. He stated that he had consulted with the public and discussed in detail the Chief Constable’s plans for staffing levels, police services and future investment needs in agreeing the Force’s budget for 2018/19.

The Commissioner advised that the core components of the budget had led to his recommendation of a 2.57% total increase in the 2017/18 precept. If accepted by the Panel, that would result in a police precept of £49.788m which, when combined with central and local funding, would amount to a total budget of £99.100m, with an average band D council tax property paying £224.56, which was at a level that was 5% higher than the 2017/18 level.

The PCC stated that the medium term financial plan incorporated a reduction of 4% in central grant from 2021/22 onwards to reflect a potential change in formula and the impact that it might have on Dyfed-Powys.

Amongst the questions/issues raised on the report were the following:-

·         The PCC clarified that the ‘Identified Risk’ statement relating to ‘Police Staff Salary Costs [including PCSOs] should read ‘The 2017/18 pay award has not yet been agreed and significant uncertainty surrounds this and future pay awards’;

·         Members welcomed the approved growth bids which included funding for cyber crime investigations, processing of applications for firearms and the employment of modern apprentices;

·         The PCC acknowledged that the new European personal data regulations due to  come into force would result in an additional financial burden in regard to the control of data and ensuring that the retention and deletion process was robust;

·         In response to a query as to whether the costs of significant unforeseen investigations such as the fatal fire at Llangammarch Wells could be met from external funding rather than from reserves the PCC commented that assistance was available from the Home Office where the cost exceeded £1m but this was unlikely to be the case in this instance and the cost would therefore need to be shared with the Fire Authority;

·         The PCC agreed to provide further details regarding the proposed custody triage project in Haverfordwest which was due to start in May 2018;

·         The PCC, in response to a question, commented that Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire Rescue Services [HMICFRS] considered that there was a good ratio of staff / officers in the Dyfed-Powys Force area;

·         The PCC advised that he was Chair of the Joint Assets Board which looked at issues such as fleet management and the use of electric cars;

Members welcomed the clarity provided by the PCC on the issues raised and thanked him for the invitation to the seminar he had organised on6th December 2017 in connection with the budget.

UNANIMOUSLY RESOLVED that the Commissioner’s proposal to increase the Dyfed-Powys Police’s precept by 5% for 2018/19 be endorsed.

The Panel received, for information, a report detailing the decisions made by the Police and Crime Commissioner for the period 7^th November 2017 - 16^th January, 2018.

UNANIMOUSLY RESOLVED that the report be received.

The Panel received a report detailing reasons why the Chair was recommending that no action be taken on a complaint made against the Police and Crime Commissioner on the grounds set out in regulation 15(3) (e) of the Elected Local Policing Bodies (Complaints and Misconduct) Regulations 2012 on the basis that to do otherwise would be an abuse of the complaints procedures set out in those regulations.

UNANIMOUSLY RESOLVED that the Panel take no action in relation to the complaint received against the Police and Crime Commissioner, and that the complaint be closed for the reasons detailed within the report.